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	<title>Comments on: TSS: How Much History Does Historical Fiction Need?</title>
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		<title>By: Nishita</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nishita]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Sep 2010 06:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found myself nodding along in agreement with every point you made. I studied history in college, so sometimes I wonder whether I am a little too picky when authors take liberties...but your point about casual readers getting misled by one particular book is very valid.


That said, I don&#039;t mind extra characters added in, but I hate it when the authors get the culture/behavior/basic history wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found myself nodding along in agreement with every point you made. I studied history in college, so sometimes I wonder whether I am a little too picky when authors take liberties&#8230;but your point about casual readers getting misled by one particular book is very valid.</p>
<p>That said, I don&#8217;t mind extra characters added in, but I hate it when the authors get the culture/behavior/basic history wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: heidenkind</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[heidenkind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 05:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My first priority with any book is always the story and whether I&#039;m enjoying reading it or not.  If that&#039;s taken care of, I don&#039;t mind historical inaccuracy so much as long as it&#039;s not LAZY historical inaccuracy.  Like the author has read a bazillion Tudor novels and decided to call that &quot;research.&quot;  

I really admire historical fiction that feels authentic to the time period and researched out the wazoo.  At the same time, novels are constructions and fantasy, and if the author wants to play with that, I don&#039;t have a problem with it.  I can suspend disbelief--on occasion. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first priority with any book is always the story and whether I&#8217;m enjoying reading it or not.  If that&#8217;s taken care of, I don&#8217;t mind historical inaccuracy so much as long as it&#8217;s not LAZY historical inaccuracy.  Like the author has read a bazillion Tudor novels and decided to call that &#8220;research.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I really admire historical fiction that feels authentic to the time period and researched out the wazoo.  At the same time, novels are constructions and fantasy, and if the author wants to play with that, I don&#8217;t have a problem with it.  I can suspend disbelief&#8211;on occasion. <img src="http://medievalbookworm.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: Heather J.</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I could go point by point but it would be easier to say that I agree with absolutely EVERYTHING you said in this post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could go point by point but it would be easier to say that I agree with absolutely EVERYTHING you said in this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jodie</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jodie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oo oo so interesting - what a great topic to explore! For my own part I&#039;m happy with changes to time spans and adding characters that didn&#039;t really exist but are based on a composite sketch of what might be typical for such a character etc to be detailed in an authors note. I am more than prepared to forgive changes to timelines to get everything to fit into a book. 

I am a bit iffy about making things up because it might have happened and the dates can be made to fit (a good example of that would be Napoleon and Wesley meeting in a Simon Scarrow book - there&#039;s no recorded meeting, but he engineered one in fiction because he could make the times they were at a place fit and drammatically that was almost like an insider joke &#039;See soon these people will be important in each others life and they have no idea, haha&#039; - fun but eh really necessary?). Same goes for more specific changes to history when it comes to more specific things, like weaponry etc. I want to know what kind of weapon a character would have used, not what kind of weapon the author thinks would make things more exciting drammatically.

When it comes to writers having to guess, because there isn&#039;t any evidence I think my feelings are the same as when I read non-fiction narrative history. The guesses should be made on evidence available about similar people and the guesses should be acknowledged (in fiction that would be where the author&#039;s note comes in). Oh and I get really annoyed when an authors note is just like &#039;I made too many changes to historical accuracy to count, but they&#039;re there, hope any I haven&#039;t made deliberately will be pointed out later - peace out).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oo oo so interesting &#8211; what a great topic to explore! For my own part I&#8217;m happy with changes to time spans and adding characters that didn&#8217;t really exist but are based on a composite sketch of what might be typical for such a character etc to be detailed in an authors note. I am more than prepared to forgive changes to timelines to get everything to fit into a book. </p>
<p>I am a bit iffy about making things up because it might have happened and the dates can be made to fit (a good example of that would be Napoleon and Wesley meeting in a Simon Scarrow book &#8211; there&#8217;s no recorded meeting, but he engineered one in fiction because he could make the times they were at a place fit and drammatically that was almost like an insider joke &#8216;See soon these people will be important in each others life and they have no idea, haha&#8217; &#8211; fun but eh really necessary?). Same goes for more specific changes to history when it comes to more specific things, like weaponry etc. I want to know what kind of weapon a character would have used, not what kind of weapon the author thinks would make things more exciting drammatically.</p>
<p>When it comes to writers having to guess, because there isn&#8217;t any evidence I think my feelings are the same as when I read non-fiction narrative history. The guesses should be made on evidence available about similar people and the guesses should be acknowledged (in fiction that would be where the author&#8217;s note comes in). Oh and I get really annoyed when an authors note is just like &#8216;I made too many changes to historical accuracy to count, but they&#8217;re there, hope any I haven&#8217;t made deliberately will be pointed out later &#8211; peace out).</p>
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		<title>By: jessicabookworm</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jessicabookworm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 08:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I completely agree I am a proper history geek, I love watching history documentaries, reading works of non-fiction on history and I see historical fiction as another avenue of learning. I am only truly impressed with a work of hsitorical fiction if I can see the research that the author has put into it and even better is if I learn something new. A great example would be Tom Rob Smith&#039;s Child 44 set in the dark period of the Soviet Union a time period I knew vague details about, but after reading Child 44 I was keen to know more. So if a historical fiction had changed facts, real events and people then I would be mighty upset haha.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree I am a proper history geek, I love watching history documentaries, reading works of non-fiction on history and I see historical fiction as another avenue of learning. I am only truly impressed with a work of hsitorical fiction if I can see the research that the author has put into it and even better is if I learn something new. A great example would be Tom Rob Smith&#8217;s Child 44 set in the dark period of the Soviet Union a time period I knew vague details about, but after reading Child 44 I was keen to know more. So if a historical fiction had changed facts, real events and people then I would be mighty upset haha.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen - Devourer of Books</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jen - Devourer of Books]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re missing the point of fiction than so am I, because I completely agree with you. I think Susan said it very well, actually. Novelists are welcome to take some liberties with the story, particularly motivations, etc, but please stick within the realm of facts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re missing the point of fiction than so am I, because I completely agree with you. I think Susan said it very well, actually. Novelists are welcome to take some liberties with the story, particularly motivations, etc, but please stick within the realm of facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Danielle C.</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Danielle C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In great part I think a reader&#039;s attitude to history in fiction depends on what kind of reading experience is important to them. To someone who uses historical fiction as a form of time travel or fly-on-the-wall participation, accuracy may be crucial in order to suspend disbelief or allow themselves to relax and trust the &quot;genuineness&quot; of the experience. Someone who looks at fiction as a form of experiencing art, for example, may find a portrait by Picasso to be as &quot;true&quot; or factual a representation of the sitter or of her/his personality as a mirror-like representation by Ingres; in such a case, emotional truth, creative originality, or enlightenment through subversion, for example, may be the criteria by which they judge their enjoyment - or the relevancy - of any form of fiction.

To treat historical fiction as a source of accurate political, social, or cultural information is tempting, but fraught with problems - that old saying, &quot;history is written by the victors&quot; exemplifies only the start. How many readers have been won over by Follett&#039;s depiction of the Middle Ages (&quot;The Pillars Of The Earth&quot;) and cite his research into cathedral building to back up the truth of his vision? How many historians and writers of fiction have fought over Richard III? How many writers base their interpretations of relationships between actual or fictional historical figures on their contemporary understanding of the human psyche, modern values and virtues, or a Western/Eastern bias; are particular about getting details about the material culture correct but pooh-pooh the all-pervasive role of religion; or equate sound research with reading books like those by Frances and Joseph Gies?

Striving to incorporate &quot;known&quot; fact without omission or addition or bias is hard and controversial work even for academic historians, and I salute any writer of historical fiction who tries to emulate their scrupulousness. Personally, I want my historical fiction to be as correct as possible in its smallest detail. I like to speculate about historical figures or events - the puzzling whys, whos, hows, wherefores - but I am not interested in history as fantasy. Like you, I think history is &quot;all fascinating on its own&quot;. It is why I find it very hard to enjoy historical fiction set in the thirteenth century, which used to be a favourite period of study for me. But I do understand why others may have different priorities. By its very nature, fiction takes liberties and plays with truths, so in a way, &quot;historical fiction&quot; is a delicious, artful paradox.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In great part I think a reader&#8217;s attitude to history in fiction depends on what kind of reading experience is important to them. To someone who uses historical fiction as a form of time travel or fly-on-the-wall participation, accuracy may be crucial in order to suspend disbelief or allow themselves to relax and trust the &#8220;genuineness&#8221; of the experience. Someone who looks at fiction as a form of experiencing art, for example, may find a portrait by Picasso to be as &#8220;true&#8221; or factual a representation of the sitter or of her/his personality as a mirror-like representation by Ingres; in such a case, emotional truth, creative originality, or enlightenment through subversion, for example, may be the criteria by which they judge their enjoyment &#8211; or the relevancy &#8211; of any form of fiction.</p>
<p>To treat historical fiction as a source of accurate political, social, or cultural information is tempting, but fraught with problems &#8211; that old saying, &#8220;history is written by the victors&#8221; exemplifies only the start. How many readers have been won over by Follett&#8217;s depiction of the Middle Ages (&#8220;The Pillars Of The Earth&#8221;) and cite his research into cathedral building to back up the truth of his vision? How many historians and writers of fiction have fought over Richard III? How many writers base their interpretations of relationships between actual or fictional historical figures on their contemporary understanding of the human psyche, modern values and virtues, or a Western/Eastern bias; are particular about getting details about the material culture correct but pooh-pooh the all-pervasive role of religion; or equate sound research with reading books like those by Frances and Joseph Gies?</p>
<p>Striving to incorporate &#8220;known&#8221; fact without omission or addition or bias is hard and controversial work even for academic historians, and I salute any writer of historical fiction who tries to emulate their scrupulousness. Personally, I want my historical fiction to be as correct as possible in its smallest detail. I like to speculate about historical figures or events &#8211; the puzzling whys, whos, hows, wherefores &#8211; but I am not interested in history as fantasy. Like you, I think history is &#8220;all fascinating on its own&#8221;. It is why I find it very hard to enjoy historical fiction set in the thirteenth century, which used to be a favourite period of study for me. But I do understand why others may have different priorities. By its very nature, fiction takes liberties and plays with truths, so in a way, &#8220;historical fiction&#8221; is a delicious, artful paradox.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love historical fiction because I view it as an opportunity to learn a bit more about a certain historical figure or time period.  Because it is fiction, I know that everything I read should be taken with a grain of salt, but I would certainly hope that authors do their research properly to be able to get the majority of the facts correct.  Manipulating history for fiction is misleading, in my opinion, and could cause even more historical inaccuracies in the future should said manipulations gain credence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love historical fiction because I view it as an opportunity to learn a bit more about a certain historical figure or time period.  Because it is fiction, I know that everything I read should be taken with a grain of salt, but I would certainly hope that authors do their research properly to be able to get the majority of the facts correct.  Manipulating history for fiction is misleading, in my opinion, and could cause even more historical inaccuracies in the future should said manipulations gain credence.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackie (Farm Lane Books)</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jackie (Farm Lane Books)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love learning about history through historical fiction and for this reason I like the facts to be as close to the truth as possible. Unfortunately I&#039;m unlikely to spot inaccuracies in most periods of history because I&#039;m not an expert. I&#039;d hate to think how many false historical facts I now believe to be true just because I&#039;ve read about them. 

I don&#039;t mind the odd tweek of history, but like it when the author takes the time to explain exactly what was changed to suit the story. I think that means I agree with you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love learning about history through historical fiction and for this reason I like the facts to be as close to the truth as possible. Unfortunately I&#8217;m unlikely to spot inaccuracies in most periods of history because I&#8217;m not an expert. I&#8217;d hate to think how many false historical facts I now believe to be true just because I&#8217;ve read about them. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind the odd tweek of history, but like it when the author takes the time to explain exactly what was changed to suit the story. I think that means I agree with you!</p>
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		<title>By: cbjames</title>
		<link>http://medievalbookworm.com/memes/tss-how-much-history-does-historical-fiction-need/#comment-11357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cbjames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medievalbookworm.com/?p=2666#comment-11357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is why I don&#039;t trust historical fiction.  I enjoy reading it, but if one wants to know about the history of a period, one should read a history book.  There are so many out there now that are just as compelling as novels are.  If you want to know how to repair your kitchen sink would you read a how-to book or a novel about a plumber?  

But this question has been around at least since Shakespeare.  How historically accurate are his history plays?  Not very. But some of them are still excellent plays.  

That said, today I think an author who knowingly makes substantially changes in the historical record should not be considered a good author of historical fiction.  I&#039;ve long felt that historical fiction is the moral equivalent of fantasy, which I also enjoy.  Authors who treat the historical record as something they can alter whenever the plot requires, just add fuel to the fire.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why I don&#8217;t trust historical fiction.  I enjoy reading it, but if one wants to know about the history of a period, one should read a history book.  There are so many out there now that are just as compelling as novels are.  If you want to know how to repair your kitchen sink would you read a how-to book or a novel about a plumber?  </p>
<p>But this question has been around at least since Shakespeare.  How historically accurate are his history plays?  Not very. But some of them are still excellent plays.  </p>
<p>That said, today I think an author who knowingly makes substantially changes in the historical record should not be considered a good author of historical fiction.  I&#8217;ve long felt that historical fiction is the moral equivalent of fantasy, which I also enjoy.  Authors who treat the historical record as something they can alter whenever the plot requires, just add fuel to the fire.</p>
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